This episode of the Stan State EduCast features Jake Weigel (Founding Director of Warrior Fab Lab, Associate Professor of Art, 2023 Wang Family Excellence Awardee).
Professor Weigel joins host Frankie Tovar to speak about the origins and capabilities of the Warrior Fab Lab and the opportunities these maker spaces create for both students and the community as a whole.
Jake Weigel Bio: https://www.csustan.edu/people/mr-jacob-weigel
Warrior Fab Lab Website: https://www.csustan.edu/warrior-fab-lab
Produced by the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing, edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.
This episode of the Stan State EduCast features Jake Weigel (Founding Director of Warrior Fab Lab, Associate Professor of Art, 2023 Wang Family Excellence Awardee).
Professor Weigel joins host Frankie Tovar to speak about the origins and capabilities of the Warrior Fab Lab and the opportunities these maker spaces create for both students and the community as a whole.
Jake Weigel Bio: https://www.csustan.edu/people/mr-jacob-weigel
Warrior Fab Lab Website: https://www.csustan.edu/warrior-fab-lab
Produced by the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing, edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.
If you're an artist, entrepreneur, or technologically curious person, chances are you've heard of fab labs. Digital fabrication laboratories. These spaces, equipped with cutting edge, computer controlled machines and tools, were created with the aim of providing access, materials and training to allow anyone to create almost anything. Essentially taking the power of creation and innovation from mass production operations and sharing it with individuals at a grassroots level. The first Fab Lab was invented by Professor Neil Gershenfeld at M.I.T. in 2001, and the first Fab lab outside of MIT was established in India the following year. Since then, more than 2500 fab labs have been established across 125 countries. And you can now add Stan State to that list because the Dr. Allan Greensburg and Dr. Ellen Junn Warrior Fab Lab had its official grand opening in April of this year. It's an exciting and promising addition to the Stan State campus, which is why we've invited its founding director and associate professor of Art, Jake Weigel, onto the podcast. You're listening to the Stan State EduCast, produced on the campus of Stanislaus State. Jake, welcome to the podcast. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So the Fab Lab, I just gave a brief introduction of what a Fab Lab is, but you're the director here at Stan State. I'd like to hear your definition of what a fab lab is. Well, Fab Lab is short for digital fabrication lab. It's a type of makerspace and a makerspace is essentially what it sounds like. It's a place for making things. What we've done with the for your fab lab at Stan State is we've created the digital SAP lab, and it really focuses on digital resources. So a lot of computer based software that we have and equipment that runs off of that software in the making process. The word Fab Lab is a little bit more of a hybrid in the sense that we have a variety of machines and processes available to cover the breadth of programs within the university and act as a physical and intellectual community, intellectual community space for innovation and transdisciplinary studies. What that means is, even though it's rooted in technology, the Fab Lab is really designed for hands on approach to learning and community building through the combination of analog and digital processes. And so the lab has been open for several months now. How many pairs of hands have been in to kind of play with these machines and tools that you have for everyone's disposal? Well, we actually opened the doors in October of 2022, and that was a way of allowing people to come in and start using the fab Lab and allowing our student assistance to get experience with users. So since October 17th, 2022, we've had over 500 unique users already in SAP Lab itself. So it officially opened 2020 to October, but I'm sure there was a lot of work that went into it before it even opened. How far back was the Fab Lab conceived? Well, I got to stand see 2017 and in the art department we had just gotten a laser cutter and we had maybe one or two 3D printers. So over time, we started getting more equipment in, including like a C and C router, a lot of computers, the software that was needed for that and building up that equipment over time. Really see an impact on campus that wasn't just focused on the art department and that vision, we wouldn't be able to see that come to reality just in the art department alone. One of those reasons is the stigma of ownership. So the fact that it's in the art department, there's not a lot of people who are going to come over and try to use it. The other thing is just space. We were already limited on space and time that we had for outside people to come in. And so part of that was really pushing at a university level for some kind of fab lab. In part of those conversations, at some point in January 2021, that was asked if I could get a proposal together for a fab lab and with the new building or the new library being renovated at the time, the idea was that a lab could be placed in that library. So it wasn't exactly planned. We had to do some retrofitting to make sure that that room worked out for the Fab Lab itself. But we got it in October 2021. We opened it essentially a year later, and then with the grand opening a year and a half after that. So it's actually been really a quick movement to establish what we have. So out of the art department into the Jay Burton Varsity Library. What is the room number and how large is the space? Room 259. So it's on the second floor and we have big red signs up that are hard to miss. I don't know the square footage of the space. It's a pretty decent space. I think it's probably 25 by 60. And what we have is two dozen 3D printers. We have two laser cutters, we have heat press system, vinyl cutter, we have a virtual reality. We have a large format photo printer. We have 3D scanners, both turntable style as well as handhelds. We have 20 iPads, we have MacBook Pros, we have 15 Windows based computers. So we've actually been really efficient with the use of our space and being able to fit all of that equipment in there. And the challenge for us really is just thinking about how we can continue to be efficient with that space, especially lacking any kind of real like project long term project space in there. I'm assuming that's part of the mission is to get these long term projects or different types of ideas conceptualized and realized in that space. Yeah, we want to see anybody who's in the stand, say, community be able to use that, and eventually we want to have the community be able to use it as well. We do have some summer camps that have been going on where we have K through 12 students come in and use it, some teachers from the community as well. But the idea is that, yes, classes can can use that space. Individuals can use that space staff, students, faculty. Really, we want to make sure that it's open for a lot of people. Now, you mentioned student assistants earlier. How many student assistants do you have? And who are these student assistants? Are they all art majors or do they vary? So we started out about a year ago. I started with two student assistants. One was an art major, one was computer science major. And now we currently have ten student assistants. They're from all different departments. We believe we have representation from all four of the academic colleges at Stan State, and that was by design. Being in the art department part in talking about the stigma earlier, as I'm still well aware of that. I don't want there to be any kind of idea of ownership that because I'm from the art department, the Fab Lab is either art centered or oriented and it can't be used in other areas. But then also just thinking about how those student assistants are really impactful for the mission of the Fab Lab and how it runs. I wouldn't be able to do it without them. Each one of the student assistants brings a different perspective to the Fab Lab. I learned that early on by working with computer science majors in the art department as well, and others through DJ classes that I taught is that art majors come with a different perspective, a different way of looking at the equipment material, the eventual objects that come out of that, whereas computer science or students from business come up with different ideas as well. So that really is by design is hiring students from a variety of backgrounds. I think we currently have like three art majors. We have maybe two or three computer science majors. We have one whose business and finance I have nursing major agriculture major. So it's it's a good variety. I'm curious, you as a director with an art background, how has your perspective maybe broadened from your short time working in the lab with these students from different disciplines? My interest in the Fab Lab was always cross-disciplinary, transdisciplinary Even my my perspective as an artist is very much interested in science and different fields. Mathematics and physics. So I guess in that sense my position as a director was really trying to investigate all these different ideas and ways of approaching making things. Essentially, we build a community by having as many different people and perspectives as possible in there. So in a way, it's I don't want to say it's selfish, but that was kind of my vision from the very beginning, is to get as many people involved as possible just to see what we could learn and build as a group that way. When I think of a Fab lab, I think a 3D printing. But when I entered this space, there were just so many things I did not expect to be in there. Take me through those. How are the machines different from each other? What are their capabilities? What have they been used for so far. In thinking about the 3D printers? I was really thinking about the fact that we could have all of the same 3D printers in there, and that would be one way of approaching a lab. It would make it easier in some ways so that the process for 3D printing is the same throughout. Other ways of thinking about is that if we can have multiple styles or different brands of 3D printers, that also gives us the diversity in how we can approach it. That diversity can include things from price points, from inexpensive 3D printers up to expensive different software that they might be used and even different approaches that we might have. And that's ultimately what we went with, and I'm still pretty happy with that. I think our student assistants are happy with the different styles and approaches that we have just in 3D printing alone. We do have a combination of some of the 3D printers can print larger filament than others, and that speeds up the time for 3D printing. We have some that can build a much larger volume so we can build larger prints with those. We have some that have a dual extrusion head on there, so that means that we can have multiple filaments coming out at the same time. So that can be either color or if you're trying to build a complex model, you can use different filaments to build different parts of that and that can be part of the design of whatever object you're trying to make. Really have kind of stuck with a couple of different brands that we have. So Caruso's a really great customer service based 3D printer that we have. We use the Valspar printers and different models of those, and we do have some lower end models like the TiVo tornados, a really great 3D printer for $300. The downside of that is there's no customer service. It's a little bit more of an intermediate printer. But with that comes a lot of freedom to be able to actually adjust the 3D printer itself. What you might say, hack it to customize it and really experiment with that. So again, there's a range of very easy plug and play type of 3D printers to higher end experimental and using different materials as well. What are the real world applications for, say, a 3D printer? What are these people making? Are they in there making art or making things for fun? Are they trying to create things they can sell or are they trying to be entrepreneurs? What have you seen so far? It's been across the board just what you were mentioning. One of our student assistants ended up buying a couple of 3D printers for himself and he's making car parts that he's selling. Think they're a brake light system that are pretty cool. The companies that are selling something similar are making a marvel aluminum and selling them for $1,000, and he's able to 3D print it and make it sell it for $500. That is one example of more of an entrepreneurial idea that's coming out of it. One of our student assistants is also building hydroponic systems, and he's not necessarily looking to sell them at this point, but he's using them as a as an AG major. And so that's that's pretty neat. We do have students who are making art out of it. A lot of students who are coming in and trying to figure out what to do with the 3D printers themselves or downloading models that are free online, and then they're able to print those out and take those home. But we have a whole system in place for its users to come in and just learn how they can use the 3D printers and what they can actually print out, whether that's a model that somebody has already created and downloaded, that could be something like a toy, it could be a model of the Titanic, could be something you can download, it could be a scientific instrument. So that's a really great way of getting involved with the Fab Lab and getting into 3D printing right away. Then we also have software where students can learn how to design and model their own 3D printable type of objects. It could be prototyping. I think we've gotten a lot of traction with agriculture already as far as being able to 3D print different things for the garden pipe fittings even, or just things that help in some kind of gardening or agriculture. And so whether it's downloading something, customizing it or building something from scratch. And then of course, we have the 3D scanners which allow people to model something. It could be in clay, it could be it would be in existing objects. They can 3D scan that and then they can print that out or alter that digitally as well. So we have a lot of different ways of making things that we're continuing to build upon. So could I enter the Warrior Fab Lab 3D, scan my face, and then 3D print a bust of my head? Yes, you could do it. Different scales even. So that's one of the really cool things about this digital technology is we have the ability, whether it's two, two or three, that once you have that file set up, you can scale it up or down without losing quality from there. So students can learn how to create a 2D. Maybe it's a 2D pattern or a 2D image and they can use that for so many different outputs within the Fab Lab itself. But then at the same time, maybe you have a design that works out really well at 12 feet tall in a half inch sheet of steel, or you can send that file over to us West Steel and plastics, and they can plasma cut that that file out for you too. So the number of outputs and the number of implications for this kind of learning and technology can be used at a variety of scales in a lot of different materials and ways. People out there interested in maybe visiting, one of the first questions they may ask is how much does it cost? One of our main goals of the Fab Lab is equitable access to this technology. So in doing so, what we've been able to do essentially is charge just the cost of the material for users. We're eliminating the use of the machine in any kind of calculations for cost. Essentially, whatever the material costs us, we're able to to break that down into smaller units and then charge for that. So an example of like your bust, if we printed that out, life size scale, that might be, you know, 600 grams of material. And what we do is we calculate that out at two grams or $0.02 a gram. So it might cost about $12 to print that out, which is really reasonable, extremely reasonable for for what we have. You're almost giving it away. Yes. Again, we want people to come in. We want them to know how to use this stuff. We want it to be accessible for them. And we don't want to have to charge anybody for it, really. So based off of the grants that we've received so far, we're able to to eliminate most of the costs or a large chunk of it. If faculty are using it for the classroom, we're not charging it at this time either. So what that means is if a student has an assignment that is incorporating the Fab Lab into any of their research or studies, then we don't charge at this time. Now, you talked about equitable access, and it sounds like there's endless possibilities for application. Are there plans to put into place ways to focus that? Well, what we're doing right now is providing a summer camp for I think it's 20 Turlock High students, and I think that's one of the areas where we're really trying to focus on students who are maybe economically disadvantaged, who don't have the money or the resources to learn this stuff. And bringing them in with other teachers so that we can provide a learning space, that everybody can learn how to use the material and different projects that could come out of that. So that's one area that we're working on as far as the accessibility. We're looking to build a mobile Fab Lab unit for the Stockton campus as well. And so that's a project that I'm working with Dr. Adam Devore, who's in the teacher education program. He teaches classes over there, and he's been a great help. In the Fab Lab is our director of Maker education. So I think is as we continue to grow, we are looking for different ways of expanding into the region and helping, whether it's K-12 education. MGC is currently in the early stages of developing a Fab lab, and if reached out about the possibility of helping them establish theirs. And so any kind of pipeline that we can build in the education sectors is going to be a great benefit for Stan State in the region as well. How will access to these spaces benefit these kids? K through 12 and then eventually into college? I'm sure you've done your fair share of research leading up to opening the Fab Lab here. How specifically does it help these young kids? Well, I think the Fab Five is really important for learning this kind of technology, which is not going to go away. As an artist. I'm really interested in object making and what that means not only for individual artists, but as a culture. So that gets into manufacturing, of course. And I think that there's a really important element to the way that things are made and how they're connected to kind of a local community that instills some kind of spirit in that object or the making process itself and how those can be really used for problem solving as well. So I think that as this technology continues to grow, it's going to become more important, more and more ubiquitous. And so allowing people to have early access to it and learn how to use it is is really going to help. I think, again, that problem solving kind of area, the Fab Lab is very much a disrupter space in the sense that we're exploring mental, we're innovative, we want to be kind of the center for cross-disciplinary problem solving and research. So I think in that sense we're at the early stages, but I think that that's that's coming. We'll be able to provide a really strong foothold for that education. Yeah, it sounds like it's in the spirit of DIY open source, right to repair as those are emerging as important social issues for a lot of people around the world, not just in the United States. Absolutely. There's a great number of projects out there that are helping rural communities across the world with this kind of technology. It's the other element of the digital technology that's so cool is that you can share it with people. So we talked about, you know, scaling up and being able to send it over to some kind of a manufacturing place, or you can also design something and share it with somebody across the world and so that you can help with problem solving at an international level or a global level in that sense, too. So it's all about idea sharing. It's all about education and helping, helping people come up with solutions. So is the sharing mandatory? If I were to enter a fab lab, come up with a product to create something, who owns that? Am I able to just go and sell it, patent it, or does it belong to the people, so to speak? It's very much open to the creator. So it's if you create something and you want to patent it, that is totally up to you and your right to do so. And we're happy to still be in that process of of giving you the ability to learn how to do that and take that product to where you want to go. As much as we're interested in in more of the kind of free use of education, the free use of this technology and and the resources, there's very much an entrepreneurial component to it that you can take it and do with it as you want to. Have there been any challenges that have presented themselves during the course of launching the Warrior Fab Lab or during the course of having it open for use? Yeah, of course. There is always challenges. I think the biggest one is that because we were so experimental with what we do, there's always the challenge of trying to fit it into the system as it exists and trying to figure out, okay, where can we make a difference? Where are we allowed to make a difference versus where do we have to push really hard and make a difference and make changes? One of the cool things about bringing the Fab lab, you know, to a reality has been working with all of the staff on campus. Again, it's part of that community building process of really trying to integrate it into the Stan State community, working with so many different people from facilities, business, finance, Office of Academic Technology, I.T. Administration. I mean, everybody who's been involved has been just so helpful in making it happen. So in the challenges, I think in trying to fit it into the system are really good ways for everybody to learn new things or new new ways of thinking about how this can be integrated into science. Two things that they don't teach you in grad school or how to manage people and how to essentially teach. I mean, those are kind of left open to experiential learning. And so that for me personally, it's been one of the challenges is just we have ten really great student assistants. I don't know how I got lucky and finding them and being able to hire them and having them work so well together. But again, for me personally, it's just been kind of taking on that role of administer greater the director and learning all of those new processes and what it takes to make the fab really happen. On the flip side, has there been anything that's almost fallen into place perfectly that you were surprised by that you're like, Wow, this is almost like it was meant to be. This just works. Well, again, the student assistants, I don't know if I got lucky or somehow my my vision of having a diverse group of students working together actually played out well. I think looking at it in that it's been two and a half years since I was asked to kind of start planning this. I think we've made really great progress in two and a half years, so that's really surprising in how it actually came together. In that sense, I think a lot of the fab labs that I've looked at or I've talked to people about across the United States, their planning process was five, 5 to 7 years. And in terms of actually planning out everything to launch, we do have a little bit more of a back end approach, I guess in that sense that we built it and now we're trying to integrate it a little bit more so than actually planning the whole thing out. But I still think that it's really falling into place quite well for you said two and a half years. When you get in there and start to use these machines and the tools, what are you creating? I wish I could say that I was using it a lot. I think part of getting it going has been it's been a lot of work. What I tell people is that the Fab Lab has become a work of art over the last two and a half years in getting it up and running, and it's been really rewarding in that sense. Actually, as far as my art goes, I've been working much more in the analog process over the last couple of years, which is a little surprising, but maybe it makes sense to balance out all of the technology that we've been working with. As I am working on a project with Eric Greenberg, who's an analyst, programmer and or I.T. In its augmented reality project for the campus. So our goal with that is to really design a user interface that somebody can take a digital model and place that into an augmented reality system for the campus. And so that is one, one project that's been coming out of that. We've 3D printed some models of the campus as part of that project as well. The augmented reality project really started out as I was a fellow on the Council for Sustainable Futures, and so we were looking for a way of kind of visualizing what one metric ton of carbon would look like. And it's it's quite big. It's a square that's 30 feet by 30 feet by 30 feet. The average American has about 16 metric tons of carbon emissions as a footprint annually. And so in wanting to visualize that, I came up with this idea to essentially make it into augmented reality. I've worked with Eric on that, and he's been the most important part because he's actually programing this. So that has come out of the Fab lab and that's this again, more of a sustainable kind of research project and thinking about how we can visualize that, get that across campus. I do work on modeling, so 3D modeling is something that I have been working on a little bit more and I want to work. I have a former student who I'm actually trying to work with as far as developing an augmented virtual reality kind of environment with his artwork. So he would be doing the 2D drawings of that and then we'd be putting it together into a virtual reality environment. So the couple of different projects in that kind of sense, I'm working with my mentor from grad school, Matt Long, and he's at the University of Mississippi. He's a ceramic artist and so he's been making things in clay. I've been 3D scanning them, but mostly I've been working. Like you said, I've been doing some more analog, just like large, large scale drawings and stuff like that. And as you said, the Fab Lab itself is your work of art. As much as it's being shaped by the student assistants and it will eventually be shaped even more so. Like the Stan State community, it was, I guess, my vision that started it. So yeah, it's a good group project. I like to circle back to augmented reality because everything about the Fab Lab is exciting, but augmented reality seems like the future. With some honesty. I don't even know the full potential. I mean, what we're really trying to do is just start the foundation for what augmented reality could be on campus. And that's as simple as you could be an art student who creates a sculpture and they're able to put it up in an augmented reality setting. Or it could be, like I said, the the project with one metric ton. We've 3D scanned some objects in the special collections in the library, which could be a great, great resource for people to actually see it without being able to handle it. And the concern of, you know, care of these objects and things like that. But yeah, I mean, the attention for augmented reality in terms of interfacing with the environment or, you know, using it as even a map system for I think that was a conversation that's come up with, Oh, I was thinking about using it as like a a map for campus where you can follow the arrows around. There's there's a lot of potential. I'm thinking of uses based on what I do here on campus, which is mostly videography. And I'm thinking that during commencement ceremony with augmented reality, someone could throw in a headset and enjoy commencement from the first row, or they could watch a musical performance or a theater performance. Are those ideas to large scale for the augmented reality we have at the Warrior Fab Lab? I don't think so. Is part of the summer camp that we're running. We're actually bringing in faculty from a couple of different schools and one of those, as you said, and the professor has a lot of experience with augmented reality murals. I think that's a pretty neat idea, is having murals up that can be visited from your phone? I think performances would be a great opportunity. What we have in the Fab lab is in terms of resources for virtual reality and augmented reality is is again thinking about 3D scanning and how you can take an object to 3D scan that and you can place that into a virtual or augmented reality environment. We do have software that can be used to create those environments. We have 360 cameras which are cameras that are specifically designed to be able to record a 360 degree sphere or environment. And so those can be used as well. And then part of the grant that we received, we were going to receive drones. Those didn't turn out. So we're still looking at getting some drones that could possibly help with scanning environments to create some kind of a virtual reality environment with those two. So I don't think it's too far off. It's not something that we've focused on in the Fab Lab entirely as far as being able to develop that. But I don't think it's it's too far off. Aside from drones, are there any future potential additions to the word fab lab that you already have in mind? Not really. At this point. We're pretty we're pretty packed. We have a good space. Like I said, there's going to be a matter of figuring out how to use it in the future, how to expand it. And so I think for now, we're we're set on what we have as far as like a lot of the technology. What's interesting is the 3D printing technology does change quite a bit pretty rapidly. So as soon as we get in a 3D printer, we're already talking about the technology that's evolving from that 3D printer and what companies are competing and what's the new technology out there. So we're trying not to make too many big changes, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new 3D printer in every year and replace an old one with something new just based off of how fast the technology's going up. For students out there who not only want to come and try out the Fab Lab, but maybe want to become one of your student assistants, how would they go about that? The jobs get posted as we need them. So I think the biggest thing for us is that if you're interested all in that kind of technology or that kind of position in the Fab Lab is is to be coming in and using it, I anticipate that we'll have a lot more competition for the student assistant positions as the word gets out about the Fab lab. As we get more people that are using the Fab lab and really want to be a part of that community. So that's what I would say is come on in and start using it. You know, get to know us, because eventually I have a feeling that we'll be hiring, you know, based off of a pool of people that we know have experience in the fab lab and and that we can work with in that sense and really want to be part of that community. And you're not just the director of the Fab Lab. You're also an associate professor here as well. Right. What courses do you teach. With the building of the Fab Lab? I haven't been teaching nearly as much. I teach a class that I really probably my favorite one is called Visual Art and Ecology. So Arts 3830, I think is the number. You know, interestingly enough, talking about analog and digital, that class really goes back into analog in the sense that we're actually finding plants to make our own paints and dyes and inks with. And so that class is really more focused on environmental issues. And it's it's actually an upper level GE class. But I think as much as the the digital technology is really important and and continues to develop, it is so much important to for us to consider, continue to consider our relationship with the environment. How that technology affects us. Again, going back to the Council for Sustainable Futures and my role there too. And so I do like to have my hand in kind of both areas is is the complete analog and the digital and the hybrid of that. So that's one class. And I really enjoy teaching for the reason that it is just kind of pure analog hands on getting the dirt you things really investigate the role of of the environment and our relationship to it and there's of course ways that we integrate technology with that class or there can be I teach a construction sculpture class A new media class. The one class that I teach that's a general education is sculpture, foundation sculpture, which is Art 1200. And that's a GE class. So that class usually has about five art majors and then about 18 non art majors, because I think it comes towards the lower division C course. Well, it sounds perfect. They can take that class, create a sculpture, take it into the Warrior Fab lab and mass, produce it and duplicate. It in actually some of the projects that we have and some of the methods that we have in the Fab Lab were designed in my classes. So in the foundation sculpture class, I do have students who take an underlying plasticine oil clay. They make a sculpture of it and then we actually 3D scan it, 3D print it, and they paint that. So that foundation sculpture class does use a hybrid of a lot of the technology that's in the lab with traditional sculpture techniques. Well, it sounds like you're right at home. As the director of the Warrior Fab Lab, Congratulations and thank you for joining me on the podcast. I am excited to explore the Warrior Fab Lab more myself. And before we sign off, do you have any final words, a final thought you'd like to share with people out there listening? I think it's just really important for people to come in with an open mind, be willing to learn, be willing to fail, learn from that failure, not be too disappointed with it, and just really ask questions. Our student assistants are a great we have two of them scheduled at a time in the fab labs so that we have as much information in there as possible. We also have a canvas elemis that has all of our instructions on there so anybody can enroll in that canvas. Elemis And then they can start going through and looking at the different equipment that we have, the software, the different resources, including project examples and ways to actually start thinking about how they can use the family. So that's a great resource for people to have. And we will have a link to the Warrior Fab Lab website in the episode description. Jake, thank you for joining us. Great. Thank you for having me. Once again, a big thank you to Jake Weigel for joining us on the Stan State EduCast and sharing his expertise when it comes to the Warrior Fab Lab. If you enjoyed this episode and want to listen to past episodes of the Stan State EduCast, you can find us online at csustan.edu/podcast. You can also listen and subscribe to us on your favorite podcasting platform. So until the next episode of the Stan State EduCast. I'm your host, Frankie Tovar. Thank you for listening.