Stan State EduCast

Introducing the New Musical Theatre BA Program with Carin Heidelbach & Jamie Johns

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This episode of the Stan State EduCast features Carin Heidelbach (Theatre Department Chair & Associate Professor of Acting and Directing) and Jamie Johns (Assistant Professor of Musical Theatre).

Carin Heidelbach and Jamie Johns join host Frankie Tovar to discuss the brand-new Musical Theatre Bachelors Degree Program, a highly anticipated and much welcomed addition to the Stan State curriculum. Listen as our guests provide a comprehensive look into the unique aspects of this program, explore its interdisciplinary and interdepartmental approach to education, and preview upcoming theatre productions. Discover the opportunities this new BA program creates for aspiring performers and theatre technicians in the Central Valley and beyond.

Theatre Department: https://www.csustan.edu/theatre 
Buy Tickets Here: https://cur8.com/projects/17811 

Produced by the Office of Strategic Communications and Marketing, edited and recorded in the KCSS studios on the campus of Stanislaus State.

Welcome to another installment of the Stan State EduCast. I'm your host, Frankie Tovar. On today's episode, we're talking about an exciting addition to the Stan State curriculum and more specifically to the Department of Theatre. The brand new Musical Theatre Bachelor's Degree Program. Providing students with the opportunity to revel in the camaraderie of the ensemble is one of the primary learning objectives of the Department of Theatre. Couple that with the ever growing popularity of musicals and this musical theater offering is just a no brainer. For the next hour, well dig into the details involved in establishing a new bachelors degree program, explore the passion behind performing and teaching the arts, and preview upcoming Stan State productions. So without further ado, lets welcome our guests. Theatre Department Chair and Associate Professor of Acting and Directing, Carin Heidelbach. And Assistant Professor of Musical Theater, Jamie Johns. You're listening to the Stan State EduCast produced on the campus of Stanislaus State. Welcome to the Stan State EduCast. Thanks for having us. Before we get into the brand new musical theater bachelor's degree program, why don't you introduce yourselves to the podcast listeners out there. My name is Carin Heidelbach and I am an Associate Professor of Acting and Directing here at Stanislaus. Also a new department chair for the theater department, and I am a director by trade now. I still do some acting periodically when I've got the time, which is hardly ever anymore, it seems. I teach a lot of the acting classes, the directing class, script analysis. I directed in the production program, plays and musicals. Yeah, I've been at Stanislaus since I was a student, way back when I graduated from here. I was a lawyer, graduated in 91, went away for a while, and did my graduate studies at DePaul University in acting and switched to directing, went to Humboldt State for my master of fine arts in directing, which is now Cal Poly Humboldt, did a semester in England, did a couple of internships in London, bounced back and forth, did some theater in Portland, Maine. But you know, the vast majority of my life has been here in the valley and I direct locally, directed all over central California and performed, and I started teaching here part time in 2002 and full time in 2019. So I've been at Stanislaus a good portion of my life. Hi, my name is Jamie Johns. I'm from the midwest, and I understand you Californians don't know where that is. It's somewhere between here and New York City, and basically that's kind of where it felt like growing up is, middle of nowhere. I pursued music I went to undergrad for a piano performance major. Found that I was too lonely being in a practice room all those hours by myself. So I went and got a master's in vocal accompanying. And that's when I started to really get into theater by way of opera. My first job was at Orlando Opera. For a couple of years I worked down there in Orlando, then moved back to the midwest, to Milwaukee, where I worked at several companies, primarily a company called Skylight Music Theater, which is a really cool company. At the time, they were primarily doing operas and musical theater with a little bit of operetta. By the time I left there, they were all musical theater. And that just seemed like to be the landscape of kind of my entire career. All these companies I was going to, including Orlando, they had started to do some musicals. There you see it, like, even the big opera companies, like Opera Chicago now, I think they just. Atlanta opera just did rent, of all things, if you can imagine. So it's a different landscape than when I first started in all this. But yeah, I think I got into opera because I was more interested in the theater side of things. And then I realized slowly that actually, if you switch yourself over to musical theater, then it's really theater. Opera still has mostly a concert air to it. You really feel like there's a lot more standing and singing, and with theater, there's a lot more activity and a lot more other things going on, which has always been my biggest interest is how music can support storytelling. So I was in Milwaukee for 15 years, and I just got a super lucky and landed on a national tour. For about six years, I roamed the country with the Phantom of the Opera, and that deposited me back in Madison, Wisconsin, at the end of the tour, right in time for the pandemic when the entire industry shut down. And I thought to myself, well, touring was fun, but I guess I'm not going to be doing that in the near future. So I started to apply for college jobs, and here I am. Well, Stan State's lucky to have you two. And it sounds like our theater students are in great hands. And we're here today because there's a brand new musical theater bachelor's degree program. How special is that for students at Stan State who are focusing on theatre as their educational path? There's a lot of buzz on campus about it. Oh, well, that's good to hear. It's pretty special. There's not another program around. Typically, musical theater programs tend to be what are referred to as bfas, which is considered a professional almost terminal degree in that, you know, you go along that path, and when you're done with it, you're a performer. And we wanted to create something a little bit different. It is a general degree in that, yes, there's a huge performing aspect to it, but there are also other avenues that can be explored. In addition to performing, home students can also consider composing, writing, creating the technical aspects of it. We hope to develop some sound programs that will help with that as well. So there isn't really another one around like it. And the valley has always had really strong youth programs, at least for the past 2020 years or so, from modesto to Merced and actually Stockton as well. There have been quite a few programs for youth that, you know, are really popular. So we have a lot of students that are around in the area who maybe don't want to go to a really large city far away right when they get out of high school, you know, and we're hoping that they might consider coming here where they can be a part of a little bit more tight knit, smaller department and get involved in all aspects of the play. So, and that's, you know, that's basically what a general liberal arts type of degree, especially in theater, allows a student to do that there are, you know, not just performing. There's directing, there's writing, there's props, there's costumes. There's all the design elements that need to go in it. There's, you know, the music aspect, obviously, and sound reinforcement and all of those things that go into, you know, putting a story up on stage. So we're hoping to bring some of those folks in the. This is the very first time this has been offered, right, a bachelor's degree program. But there have been musicals. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, even going back to when I was a student, I know we usually, we had done at least one every other year, and that was kind of the standard, I think, for a long time. And then, you know, the last, well, pandemic kind of messed with things. But we were trying to do closer to one a year, just trying to sort of improve the offerings. We can only do right now just because of staffing and our space issues over in the theater department, we can only do five shows a year, and that's what we've been doing for a pretty long time, obviously, with some student work that is added here and there for senior seminars. And our theater club also puts on events from time to time as well. So we're limited in that respect, but we're trying to this year, we're doing two musicals out of the five offerings, and I suspect that'll probably continue for a while. So why now? Why was the time right to bring this program to Stan State? Like I was saying, with the opera companies that I worked for, and we see largely across the country, it's true, too, of theater companies that I've been a part of. Those companies that I knew in Milwaukee that were primarily producing legitimate theater have now started to offer a musical, or maybe two musicals. They realize their audiences are demanding it, and even their actors are wanting to be a part of that kind of production. There's something to be said for musicals. Their energy. They kind of promote community in a way that maybe a legitimate show doesn't have the opportunity to just by virtue of the size of the cast. So the reason now is because if you're going to be a viable candidate for participating in the world of theater in 2024, knowledge of musical theater is basically essential. And it's really great just to see how the students from this year are excited about this prospect of having something that's bigger and sparklier, like musicals can be. Well, I think, too, going along with what you're talking about, that theater companies are generally offering, it is a commercial thing, and that they know that musicals tend to bring in more audience, say, than a really specific, legitimate, straight play. And I hate that term for it. But actually, we were just talking about the. Trying to come up with the appropriate terms for all of these things, but the audiences are demanding it, and it's become. Musical theater used to be a little formulaic. I think it was for. For a long time, and that it was a specific type of music that you needed to learn, and those things expanded over time, but it was limiting. And now we have this sort of. There's all different kinds of music in musical theater. I mean, you have hip hop, you have schwolk, you have. Obviously, we've had jazz for a while now, but the expansion of the. The types of music that are offered even within one particular show, that you don't have to stick with even one composer within the context of a musical anymore. So, so much has changed that it's really become more of a varied genre, I think, than it used to be. And I think that's really. I mean, there are entire musicals on TikTok now, so it's just going to continue to grow and change. I would imagine there's a lot involved in establishing a new bachelor's degree program at a university. So how did this process begin? What did it all entail and who were some key individuals involved in the process? Well, it sort of started around 2016, and it was kind of the, the idea, I think, primarily of Eric Broadwater, who is our scenic designer in the department and was department chair up until recently. And he really kind of put it into gear, and he had a lot of help from the music department as well. Joe Wiggett, who recently retired from the music department, was also instrumental in helping us, you know, kind of figure out what this was going to look like. And like I said, most musical theater degrees are more of a, you know, a BFA type degree, which sort of limits the students ability to think broadly and is much more specific to performing. And we wanted to kind of keep it a little bit, you know, so it could breathe a little bit, see what it could become. So music department, Eric, the dean, Doctor Shui. Oh, you know, there's been a lot of people that have done a lot of work on it over the years, and it finally happened. You know, it just finally kicked into gear. So easier. Easy process. Difficult process. Once Eric and Jim, the dean and the chair that Karen just mentioned, pushed through the hire me, it seemed like it was pretty linear, honestly. Eric and I had to sit down together lots of times and look at this proposal that we were writing. Submit it through a process called curriculog, which is changing its name here on campus, which goes through the entire CSU system, not just our university, but all the way up to the chancellor of CSU. And they review it. And, yeah, you have to rewrite and edit and all this pretty much expected. And two years later, out comes a pie that says musical theater on it. Just like baking. Yeah, it's just a process. And actually, I was surprised. It kind of went fairly straightforward. Now we actually have the degree. We are on our first year of it. We have a declared major, and we have several others that are looking to declare majors. And we're seeing. Yeah, now we've got some other work to do. It's once you got the ball in the air, then it's about keeping the ball in the air. And there's going to be a lot of negotiating and figuring out how to get students through the roadmap. But it's very doable. It's very. I still think the degree itself is fairly linear. You mentioned Karen, the BFA, and how that's so training intensive, and it doesn't really allow for you to expand your horizons if you think you want to be in musical theater. But actually, I'd like to look more at this aspect of design, if you're in a BFA for musical theater, you're probably not going to get that much of an opportunity to do that in ours, you can definitely be focused on your performing. You're going to get your dance classes, your music classes, but at the same time, you might be able to have time to spend at the lighting board and see if that might be where you want to be hanging out in musical theater or theater. A first time program for Stan state, but also a first time program for the Central Valley as a whole. Is that correct? Yeah. The closest, I mean, to my knowledge right now, I think the closest similar type program, but it's a BFA, is Chico. Other schools are obviously doing musicals, right. But in terms of a degree being offered in this particular area, I think we're the only one. And, you know, we have, you know, and we will for the next few years, we'll have to tweak it and figure out what works, what doesn't, what needs to be amended, what needs to be adjusted, you know, taking input from students and what they want and what that might look like. We'll keep it going. Like Jamie said, the ball is in the air now. Now we will juggle it. And I know you're still in the early stages of the program, but what makes this program unique compared to some of the other programs, like the one you mentioned in Chico? Well, like I was saying before that I, you know, and what Jamie was just mentioning, that I think most of the time, musical theater programs tend to focus on the artist as actor, as performer, performing on stage, you know, and we're obviously still very interested in that because I think the artists that we're training right now, they're going to be plopped out into a world that looks different than what happened when I graduated from, you know, from my studies and Jamie, as well, they have to do a lot of different things now. And that era of specialization where I think it's still very valid to specialize, especially if you're going on to grad school. I think that given the landscape, I think that and the gig economy, that a lot of students, when they graduate, they realize I got to be able to do a lot of different stuff. This, I hope, will prepare them for a world that looks like that and also that makes a more well rounded artist. And one of the things that we're super proud of here at Stanislaus is that our theater students and now musical theater students are able to get a little bit of everything while they're here. There's always space. There's always room. There's always time to give somebody the opportunity to do something they haven't tried before. Maybe they've been definitely afraid of operating the light board or the sound board. There's time to get accustomed and figure that out. That experience makes a performing artist, a better artist, having that understanding. And should they want to be a director one day, all of those elements are going to come back and help them with that aspect of their career. Have you two already seen an effect on enrollment? Who's to say? There certainly was a spike this semester. Whether that is related to this, who can tell? Yeah, you know, it's hard to say because things were so, you know, affected. Enrollment was so affected by the pandemic, and, you know, we're kind of reliant on high school theater programs still continuing to operate to, you know, to keep those students interested and engaged in that. And when all of that stopped, enrollment was affected for us. And now it appears that that's over. But, you know, so it could be partially that, you know, that the students we're getting now had theatrical experiences in high school, and so they're ready to continue. Or it could be the new degree. It could be a lot of different things. I think we'll have to wait and see if it continues. So question that by having the new degree and by doing bigger shows, doing a few more musicals on campus, we're drawing in more of the CSU population as well, not just new enrolled students that are becoming majors. But I think we're finding that there's engagement from across the campus, which I think is something that we also want. It's not just about trying to fill our numbers in our department, but it's about the theater department itself having a presence on campus and being something that is a destination for people to participate in and also to come to events. Yeah, we're very. We love other majors, too. They tend to wander over periodically looking for that engagement, and I think that's great. We actually, we have a lot of double majors in the department, too, which I think is fantastic. And, yeah, we definitely want to nurture that. Absolutely. Grabbing attention across campus is a great goal, obviously. What other short term goals do you two have for the program? Well, we're doing one of mine right now, so one of the titans of musical theater, american musical theater, passed away during the pandemic 2021, a man by the name of Stephen Sondheim. And one of the great opportunities I have here at Stan is to be able to put titles into a hat with everybody else in the department and say, you know, maybe we could consider doing this show. Consider doing this show, this kind of thing. I definitely wanted us to do a Stephen Sondheim show if we could, and there really aren't a lot of titles of his that really are appropriate for us or that we thought we could cast, but we found one, and it is such a beast, this little piece that we've discovered. It's from early on in his career, and we're going to be getting to this, I'm sure, as we're talking about our season coming up. But, yeah, this short term goal of mine is to really to put out repertoire there that nobody else is doing. It would be fairly straightforward for us to do legally blonde or grease, which is what the students are clamoring for. And I don't want to, you know, kick the students in the teeth. That's not my goal, and say, no, you're going to have this instead. You're going to eat your spinach instead of enjoying your candy. But much to my delight, what I'm realizing is if you put the great product out there in front of the students, yeah, it's a little hard to get them to audition, but once they do, they're finding that this is really quality work. Like this piece to be working on, that we're working on now. Anyone can whistle Stevens on is something that has more meat on the bone than, say, legally blonde. And I have nothing against legally blonde, but you're not going to have a problem finding a place to do that production or to be a part of that production. Stan State I think, of course, we will do some titles that are people familiar with, but we're also going to. I'm interested, at least short term, in doing titles that will make people say, maybe I should try that. Check that out. Cause it's something brand new. Yeah, we have a group of people over there that likes the obscure and obscure musicals especially. There's just not as many of them musicals in the canon as there are legitimate plays. Right. You would think that, but there are thousands. There really are to find them. And that's part of the fun for us, is finding that show that works for our students is that's one of the primary things that we think about, is where do they need to go next? There's so many great titles out there that you could do, but maybe they rely on primarily casting people who are in their forties or fifties. I'm thinking of come from away would be a fun show to do here, but it's not appropriate for us because we would have to cast largely. Either the students would have to be cast past their age, which is fine, or we'd have to bring in more community members, which is also fine, but we're trying to serve our students as best we can. So to find that one show, that specific show in the middle of all these others, that actually every character is kind of perfect for a 25, 26 year old, that age group, that's one of my assignments. And actually, I do believe that there's a treasure trove down there. You have to go through the weeds to find it. Yeah, that's like. Those are rabbit holes I absolutely love. But they do take a lot. A lot of your day. It's a good part of your day. It's the best part of your day. It really is. It's really. That's a fun process to find that next show. That next thing that we're going to do. The next one I'm looking at is called Dear World by Jerry Horn. Oh, I like dear World. What do you know? Yeah, totally. I like that one. And it doesn't get done that much. It doesn't get done very well. That's what we want to do. From an educator's perspective, why is it important to give these students the opportunity to perform these musicals that are more spinach than candy, as you put it? I think that there are other places around that are, you know, that are, you know, I don't want to pick on legally blonde because I just did it. I'm sorry. I totally enjoy legally blonde, but I think that finding those pieces of theater that have not only the sparkle but also that aspect of theater where you're really trying to. Maybe they were trying to change the art form at the time, or they were trying to make an adjustment to something. Anyone can whistle was really ahead of its time when it came out. And a lot of it's. A lot of people call it a flop in the sense that it didn't make a ton of money on Broadway, which is always the marker of a successful piece, at least in this country, but it has a sense of absurdism to it, which was a really popular art form in theater in the fifties and the sixties as well. So taking those two genres and putting them together, that's the process of learning how to create art. So trying to get the students to understand that, you know, formulas are fine, but once you know the rules, you can then break them. And that's, you know, that's a part of being an artist is knowing when to do that, when and when not to do that, or how much to do that. So those kinds of pieces, that might be a little bit more difficult, shall we say? Because they're not, you know, they weren't massive money makers at the time or whatever. They were ahead of its time. Those are the things that offer the student a way to become a better artist. What are they going to do? Are they going to compose? How are they going to, what is the thing that's going to be special about what they create that's different? So your students who are currently developing their artistry, what does their day to day life look like? The core structure, the curriculum, as they pursue musical theater, it's going to change. For individual students from year to year, and especially with transfer students. I'm thinking of some specific students that we have right now. If you're coming in as a freshman looking to start the musical theater degree, their first

year here is going to be a couple of 09:

00 in the morning classes. Music. You're going to want to hit your music classes right out of the gates. And then sophomore year, you'd probably move into some more of your acting classes and then dance classes, probably by your junior year. We really recommend that the music gets going first and foremost. The requirements in the musical part of the degree are perhaps more linear in terms of when they need to be accomplished, and they serve as a foundation for a lot of the other things that the students will be learning over the course of the four years, including in dance. If you have better rhythm from your music classes, then your dance classes are going to be more successful. So it's just kind of a great place to start. So looking at a typical day of a student, musical theater student here at Stan, they're probably going to have a class at nine and then another class at noon, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and then they'll be in rehearsal at nights and probably at their drama club Friday afternoons. Their day here at Stan is going to be pretty full. I know, particularly a bunch of them are jumping up and running over to Modesto in the afternoon to do some work at the gallo. Or we've got some not quite internships, but I've been helping some students get to find some work at some of the high schools in Modesto where a teacher there might be doing a particular musical, and they need a little extra hands after school, that kind of thing. So our students are running off to do that, pretty much. You're looking at a day of theater.

09:00 in the morning until 09:

00 at night.

And 09:

00 in the morning is conservative. You're probably going to start your day more like at six or seven, at least, in terms of when you're getting up and when you're starting your warm ups and all that jazz. And that's, frankly, true for any artist. And that's what we love it. That's why we are into it, because it forms your life. It creates a nice guardrail for you to know what's gonna be a best practice for you to serve your form, your art, which, ideally, we hope, if we're artists, that's what we're here to do, right? Not serve ourselves. I'm sure I'm just blowing smoke, but, yeah, ideally, you get up in the morning, and the first thing you're thinking about is, how am I to going to serve this art form today? So you mentioned in music classes, dancing classes, acting classes. One of the things that interested me about this program was the interdisciplinary and interdepartmental nature of the program. Can you talk about the collaboration involved with that? It's a unique learning opportunity for the students, for sure. It's a lot. It is a lot. And I'm super thankful to the folks in the music department because they've been really, really helpful. You know, the music degrees are big degrees, you know, and they are all over. I mean, we all are to a certain degree, but they do a lot of work all day long just for their particular department. So adding this on has been, I think, a lot for all of us, but they've been super, super helpful and getting, you know, trying to get. Get things worked out so that we can get those students into music fundamentals, you know, into their very fundamental courses, freshman level voice and things like that, those foundational courses. And then hopefully next year we're involving kinesiology because that's where the dance classes live in that respect. Yeah, it's a little like juggling, but we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. The cool thing to me about the interdisciplinary aspect of this degree is just the fact that the students wander over into the music building. For me, when I get a break during my day and I go over into the music building, it's such a breath of fresh air, just like I am listening to people in practice rooms playing a bassoon. Part of that is, that's my world. That's where I came from. But also part of it is like, oh, yeah, I do this with the art building, too. It's just like, oh, yeah, here are other artists doing their discipline, and just stepping outside of mine for a second and just witnessing theirs is so refreshing. It takes some of the, you know, you get too ed into the weeds and too into the minutia of what you're doing, and then you forget about the big picture. So I think that that aspect of it alone is kind of a gift to the students because they're like, okay, maybe my monologue isn't going so well today, but maybe my song will be better. Something else to do. Yeah, it seems like we've had. I don't know, I've felt a lot of that lately. Cause we have a lot of crossover, too, with creative media. There are a lot of theater options within that particular degree as well. So in my directing class, which is directing for theater, I have a lot of creative media folks. And it just. I don't know, I think that sort of cross disciplinary, especially now, I just think it's so important for the students to have access to as much as possible. For me, it's basically everything. When I don't have that cross relationship, I become just like a shell. I just get hollowed out, and I don't know what that is. But, yeah, I think, yeah, you just kind of. You can get a little bit of tunnel vision, you know? And so I think injecting all of these other things in it is just great for our students. Yeah. So the students have a broad educational opportunity, but there's also niche opportunities when it comes to concentrations as well. Right. There are three concentrations within the theater program. There is a performance concentration within the theater degree, the regular theater degree. There's design and technology, which we refer to as technical theater. And then there's theater education now, which is also new this year. There's a huge push within the state to hire more performing arts teachers at the secondary level, the high school level. So we are starting a new concentration to sort of. To help with that, to get those folks trained, because the school districts are looking for these teachers. And, you know, we haven't. There hasn't been a theater degree or, sorry, a theater credential in the state in a while, like a couple of decades, I want to say, outside of, you know, english teachers who have a supplementary authorization. So that aspect as well, I think, is just going to help combining even the musical theater degree, then having a theater ed concentration that is possible within that, that's going to help the high schools. It's going to help the local high schools hire these teachers. So fingers crossed lots of opportunities for the students, right? But the most visible opportunity is the performance opportunity. As far as a non theater person like myself is concerned. That's what I recognize immediately. The plays on the stage, whether it be on the main stage or out in the amphitheater. That seems to me to be the most important aspect, that experiential learning. Every student in the theater department, regardless of what their concentration were now, which major they choose or if they're a minor even, they're required to do at least six shows over their time here. Most of them do at least one a semester. Many of them, the vast majority, do two a semester, at least in the spring. They end up doing three if they do the children's show as well. That's the foundation of what we do. Of course, the classes are all, you know, very important. You know, that's where they get that foundational stuff and then they take it, and then they hopefully they're supposed to be putting it into their performance, you know, into their, you know, whatever it is they're working on at the time. And every time they're doing something a little bit different. So students who are in rehearsal and performance, they are, if they're not on stage, they are trying something new backstage or in the front, whether it be working on a board, hanging lights, working as master electrician, using the fly rail as a stage production hand, or assisting a costume designer, all of those things are possible with us. And the more they do it, the more that resume starts to look pretty good. By the time they leave college, they're ready to go out and either go on to grad school. And a lot of our theater students that their aim to go on in size or they're going on to get a credential, or they're moving into other fields where they're using their theater skills. And we're fast approaching the next production you mentioned. Anyone can whistle. That will run October 11 through the 13th and then the 17th through the 20th. Who are the stars of this production? Do you want to shout out the students? I'm sure they've worked very hard to earn their spots. We have in the lead role of Faye Apple, a woman by the name of McKenna early, who is one of our theater majors. And then in the role of the mayoress of the corrupt town, shes the corrupt politician of the town, Cora Hoover Hooper is the characters name being played by one of our theater minors, Ava McCullough. And then the third prominence character. This is a funky show in that its a big old ensemble show. So theres probably, I want to say, 25 named characters in the show. We only have 15 actors in the show. So that means most people are playing multiple roles. But there's three people who really are like the principals, if you will. Maybe you could say seven. There's a quartet that also sort of follows around with Korra. But the third person of this trifecta of primary actors is a cat by the name of Luis Flores, and he's doing the role of Capgood. And we had a really fun conversation in rehearsal the other day. We don't know which of these three people is the protagonist. It's not clear which is why this. Is a good show. Which is why this is a good show out of the gate. Also, Sondheim had just learned a real important lesson from both west side Story and from a funny thing happened on the way to the forum, two shows that he wrote right before this. The one and funny thing that happened on the way to the forum, which is a classic story, was that the show was failing and failing and failing. And they brought in what they call the show Doctor, a guy by the name of Jerome Robbins, who's one of the biggest choreographer directors in Broadway, and he turned to Stephen Sondheim and said, hey, your opening number, it doesn't work. The reason the show doesn't work is because your opening number doesn't work. It's the wrong number. You're telling the people that they're going to see this kind of show and in fact, they're really going to see that kind of show. And so Steven Sondheim went home and he wrote a new opening number, and the next day, comedy tonight was their opening number. And now that's a classic of musical theater repertoire. And it completely changed the show. I mean, overnight, like, one song changed the show and it became a huge hit. So fascinating that he would go out on a limb with this show and start it with a solo number for the mayoress, who we guess is the villain. Very odd to start the show with the antagonist singing an I want or an I am song. So, you know, did he learn his lesson? I don't think so. I think all he ever really wanted to do was experiment. So that's those three people. And I guess Luis Flores, who plays Hapgood, is the most likely candidate of being the antagonist. I don't know. They're all sort of messing with each other's plans. So it's just, I think human nature is the antagonist. Oh, okay. Well, I can be deep for a second. I'll buy that. We'll take any dramaturgy we can find. At this point. He. I think our ability to switch back and forth between being the protagonist and antagonist of our own story is kind of what he was going for. There's that. Well, in any event, it caused us to form a new word for the lexicon of theater. Yeah, it's the prantagonist. I like it. Where can people find information about the show and buy tickets if they're interested in attending? Oh, there's a direct link. If you go to Csustan theater, you will get to tickets as well as information about the show and purchasing them online. We don't take cards anymore at the door, so you can still purchase online, you know, up to the. Up to the point of the show. It's the best way to get your tickets online. You can use a card, but at the door, you pay cash, and it's still, like, super cheap.$12. I think we're trying very hard to keep it cheap as long as we can. Yeah, I don't know. It's important to us for the students to be able to afford to come to the theater and really the community as well. As long as we can keep those ticket prices low, we will. And they can also find information about future productions online as well. I understand the next musical is the musical of all musicals. Or musical. Or musicals. Do your best with that title. We can't get it. And that's in March. Yes. What can you tell me about that production? Well, between now and then, we also have the Thanksgiving play, which I wouldn't want to pass that up. Do you want to talk about that for a second? Sure, yeah. Thanksgiving play just got off Broadway, I think a year or so ago. It was delayed, another one of those delayed by the pandemic. And it was written by the first native american playwright to have a show on Broadway, Larissa Fasthorse. It's been a great show for her. She wrote it in response to the fact that people were giving her a lot of flack for writing plays with native american characters because they couldn't find native american actors to play the parts. And so the Thanksgiving play was her response to that. It's very satirical. It's a satirical comedy, and it's about some educators trying to create a PC Thanksgiving play, elementary school students, which is a disaster waiting to happen, sounds like. So, yeah. And then we have Charlotte's web in January, which is our children's show, which is a play with music, I believe. I didn't know that. I think there are some songs in that one, but I'm not positive. And then, yes, we will follow up in the studio. We'll be doing a musical in the studio. So that's the black box. Our studio is like our smaller space where we can do more experimental things. And this show is called the musical of musicals. The musical. And what it is is five different musicals, five very short, one act musicals, each telling the exact same story. The story being, I can't pay the rent. You must pay the rent. And then the hero saying, I'll pay the rents. So you got a villain, you got an anjanue, and you got a hero. Now, the conceit of the show is that each of those stories is told, you know, it's told. That same story is told five times. And each time it's told in the viewpoint of a different composer, lyricist group. So it's once told, like, as if it were written by Kanderneb, the writers of Chicago and cabaret. The same story is told, again, corn as if it was written by Rodgers and Hammerstein, the writers of Oklahoma and South Pacific and King and I. And a sound of music. There's a Jerry Herman version, the guy who wrote Hello, Dolly and Mame. And then there's a Stephen Sondheim version of the same story. And of course, Stephen Sondheim's shows include anyone can whistle, which we're doing in the fall. Into the woods. Into the woods. This is a big one. Sweeney Todd. Yep, those are the big title. And the final musical of these five musicals. And musical of musical to musical is by, ostensibly in the style of Andrew Lloyd Webber, which, of course, I owe a personal debt of gratitude to Sir Lloyd Webber for financing my life for six years. So happy to return the favor and make fun of him with this show called Junita. It's like a combination of Evita and cats. So it's great for the students, you know, because they get to see, you know, the differences. Oh, for sure. I mean, what we'll be doing in rehearsals is watching all these other shows that I'm referring to and looking at where are the references in this musical? So in a sense, we're not learning one musical. We're actually going to get a chance to learn 20 musicals, or the students will be exposed to 20 musicals through this piece. It's always been sort of a pet project of mine to use this piece in that capacity. Sounds like a fun lineup. Yeah. And then after that, we'll be doing the Wolves, which is a story about, I believe it's a high school girls soccer team. And that will be taking place on the main stage. Seating on the main stage, as well as the acting happening on the main stage. So you were the turning of the whole main stage into, like, a soccer. Into a soccer field. Soccer field. Is that what you. I was gonna say soccer arena, but I'm not so good with sports. I think it's called the pitch, technically. Well, there you go. Depending on where you are, right? Yes. Yes, it is a pitch. Yeah. And I understand there are additional opportunities for the community to come out and watch your students perform, not just the five events on the production schedule. You had mentioned during a pre production meeting that there are student capstone performances that people can come out and watch and enjoy in the spring. We generally have what we refer to as senior seminars. So those students that are getting ready to graduate are putting together a project, and they all look a little bit different. You know, we've had writers, we've had student writing, student directing, student designed, all of those things put together, and those usually happen sometime two weeks before the semester ends. They tend to not get a lot of press. So I really recommend that you wander over to the theater building and look for posters. And some of these productions are really, truly not to be missed. Twelve Ophelias. Twelve Ophelias last year was as good as any production that we produced on the main stage. The students do amazing work in that series. Yeah. They get some autonomy. They get to really have some choices over things, and that's the purpose of it, for them to feel like they're in a safe environment to do that. And that's just another way for the community to be involved in the educational process, and that's what makes theater so special. Right. That interactive learning opportunity, right? Yeah. If, you know, if we've got the public coming in, then they've got. They're responsible. I'm curious about the balance involved in keeping the students in mind and keeping the community in mind. Obviously, the students are performing, but you also want people to come out and watch the shows. How do you balance that? That's always a challenge, you know, and if we were a community theater or a regional theater or a tour, you know, operating a touring venue like the Gallo, then you really have to think about bringing in those things that are going to keep things afloat, even when they are nonprofits. You have to think about reaching the public, reaching the community, and here we think about that. But I think, first and foremost, we're concerned with what our students need next. And obviously, because we're having to helm. And I, as a director, I want to work on something. I want to work on that I've got to an affinity for or that pulls me in a particular direction. When we're putting seasons together, we generally think about all of those things. Even though I'm directing, I want to know what Eric wants to design. I want to know what Jamie wants to know. He wants to see what he's interested in. We asked the students we have for the past couple of years to give us some titles, and we make them think, these are your, you know, think about, these are the parameters you're casting the students that we've got for the most part, because we do offer roles to guest artists periodically if we have to bring somebody in for a specialized type of role or we will use community members. If a role calls for something, you know, that a student is not yet capable of or age or, you know, something to that effect. But we tell them, you know, these are the things you have to think about, you know, when you're putting a season together, what do you want? Yeah, everybody wants to do that show, but can we really do that show? Right. So it's part of the process for them, too, to think about those things. So it's always a fun, fun couple of months trying to figure out what we're going to do next year. It's coming right up, isn't it? Well, it feels like it's always coming up. Yeah. And we are very often. I mean, I know I am. I think about it all the time, what we're going to do next. Yeah, I've got copious lists. Yes, we all have copious lists of. Yeah, it's just perfect for us, whether or not it's the right time, whether or not we have the right students, you know, whether that's what they need, you know, that kind of thing. So with that in mind and keeping an eye on the future, are there any additional projects or additions to the program that you have on deck, or are there some you got to keep close to the vest? Well, we don't tend to talk about season until we want people to know, because the minute I do that, somebody else will be doing it, so I don't. Yeah, titles are generally something we keep kind of close to the heart until we can't anymore and we have the rights, you know, that's the other thing that we have to, you know, there's a lot of shows I want to do, but they're not always available to us. So that's part of it as well. But, no, I think that. I mean, that's it, right? That's enough, isn't it? Yeah. Our biggest trick was the musical theater major. We don't have anything else of our swing just at the moment. I got nothing else right now, although. I will put another push in for. Anyone can whistle. I guarantee that'll be the last chance you have to see this show. Yeah. Like, ever. And you'll probably never see this produced anyplace else again. And partially that's because we realized, putting it together, it's almost unproducible. Yeah. I do feel like our director, Nick, has figured out some things that even Arthur Lawrence, the writer, originally, what was done, the writer directed it, which is always. Which is never a good idea. Yeah, never a good idea. So Nick, who is a writer in his own rights, how many times have they written, also is directing our show, but he has done a great job of focusing it. So I think the story is being told in a way that it may never get a chance to be told again. Yeah, I would agree. Nick's got an MFA and playwriting from UNLV, and he, you know, absurdism is. Is kind of the bent that he's always written in to a certain degree. I mean, it's a little bit different, but. So I think he has a special handle on this show that maybe others might not. I think that's a good pitch. Come see it while you can. Right? Yeah. There's obviously a lot of passion and knowledge between the two of you, and I'm curious, when, how and why did you fall in love with theater, or more specifically, musical theater? Well, I did my first play in fifth grade. That's been a really long time. I had a fifth grade teacher who said, here, you're the only person, I think, that can do the role of Scrooge. And I did it, and I was like, this is pretty awesome. Then I wanted to be an architect for a few years and a doctor, all of that good stuff. But when I was in high school, an english teacher and I went to Livingston High, local girl, an english teacher, sent me to the Oregon Shakespeare festival for a two week workshop for high school juniors the summer before I became a senior. And that changed my life. I knew I just wanted to do theater for the rest of my days, and it was focused in Shakespeare, and Shakespeare's always been, you know, my first love when it comes to. Comes to theater. But I just knew that's what I wanted to do. And my grandmother also was a Middle English, her PhD was in middle English, so she knew Chaucer and all of those things. So, you know, I grew up listening to Bea Walsh. She's also an opera singer, too. So that probably had something to do with the fact that I didn't go into music, because every time I started to sing, she would drown me out of here. I am doing musicals. You're back, and I'm back. Still not as good of a singer as she was. But, you know, what are you gonna do? So that's how I ended up doing this. No Shakespeare for me. I didn't learn any of the highfalutin stuff. I was five years old when someone put a rabbit costume on me and told me to sing a song as Peter Rabbit. I remember the song. It was, I thank you for your hospitality. And then I sang this to the vegetable garden, and then the vegetables sang back to me. Oh, we enjoyed your splendid company. And I had a cane, and I was doing a little tap dance. You've given me a time that surely was sublime. I've never met such lovely folks before. Five years old, bunny costume, cane, singing, vegetables sold. That was it for me. That would've done it for me, too. Goodbye, box. So I definitely took the cheap road in. And how did that love develop into a passion to help guide young artists? I don't know. You know, I think some of my professors here, actually, you know, I kept thinking when I was in college doing theater, you know, I knew I wanted to be an actor. And then later I knew I wanted to be a director, but I'd always kind of thought, wow, I really want to teach college students because. And I taught for. Before coming full time to Santa Slas, I taught ten years at Merced college, and I love teaching junior college, too. You know, there's just something about that stage of life, I think, that is really. It's amazing to watch them figure stuff out. I think that's what keeps me going. I like to watch those discoveries and getting them to think about what it is that they're going to do that's going to be a little bit different or new or how are they going to take the world for them? What does that look like? I still like to perform. I still like to direct. I like to do things, you know, for myself as an artist, but I don't know. I just really like to see them. Grow, I think as a music director, I don't know that I've ever not been an educator. It just feels like that being in the arts, being in theater, is like, you're always sort of in education mode. You're learning and then you're trying to give off information or pass on information. So I dont know that I ever separated the two worlds. It feels like education and music or theater, any of the arts. Theyre definitely wrapped up in each other. Its been a great discussion, but we are at the end of the podcast, so its time for some final thoughts. So if you had to distill everything we discussed here today into an elevator pitch for prospective musical theater students, what would your pitch be? And we'll start with you, Karen. My pitch would be to that student, to go for it, to do it, to really think about like what is the thing that lights you up and do that thing. Yes, it's going to be hard. It's going to take a lot of time. At times you're going to need some sleep, but if it's something you love, you should do it. There's always time to change your mind, to pivot, to add something else to your life. But college is one of those times when it's not just about preparing for a career, it's about figuring out who you are, what you value, who you are as a citizen and a person. And so if theater, musical theater and any kind of art, if that's what makes you happy, do that thing. Because life is hard just by itself, even when you're doing something you love. That's all I got. Really good. I don't want to follow. All right, kid, so you're in this elevator with me. All right, well, mercenary kid. So if art is your bag, if you find yourself interested in theater, then by all means, you should absolutely sign up for the musical theater degree at Stan State, because you will get a smattering of all aspects of the artist's life. You'll get some design elements, you'll get some much music, construction, a lot of dance, acting instruction, all the things that will help you clarify as to whether or not this is the right thing for you. It doesn't do you any damage to sign up for a degree. You can always go back. You can always say, you know what, musical theater, not my bag. I'm going to go be a maths major. Totally cool. But give it a shot and see if it's something that you could excel at, especially if you've already loved theater and the arts when you were in high school. And I would also say that if you do decide you want to be a math major, lots of theaters need accountants. Yes, Reddit. Boy do we. You can join both of those worlds. We actually have a student that is a double majoring in math and theater, so as it can be done. All right, Karen Heidelbach, Jamie Johns, thank you for joining us on the Stan State EduCast. Thanks, Frankie. Appreciate it. Once again, a huge thank you to Carin Heidelbach and Jamie Johns for joining us on the Stan State EduCast. Be sure to go online and buy tickets for Anyone Can Whistle as it runs from October 11 through the 13th and October 17 through the 20th. You can go online and buy tickets at csustand.edu/theatre. As for other Stan State podcasts, including past episodes of the Stan State EduCast, you can find those episodes at csustan.edu/podcast. You can also find us on your favorite podcasting platforms, so be sure to follow and subscribe, and you'll get updates whenever a new episode is posted. So until our next discussion, I'm Frankie Tolvar. Thank you for listening.